Silly Little Outfits: travis
The third Olsen twin on art, money, and the pants we wouldn't be caught dead in as teens
travis l. tate is a writer, performer, and silly girl living in Brooklyn, NY. they love sweet treats and going to the club! you can find more about their plays, poetry, and their short story collection, UNTENABLE MYSTIC CHARM, at travisltate.com.
Jenna: What's your favorite outfit?
travis: Oh my God. What's my favorite outfit? Okay. Right now, in the winter, it’s Dickies work pants. With those boots from Australia that everyone has, and now I can't remember the name.
J: Uggs?
t: No, they're from Australia.
J: Uggs are from Australia. And they’re like, back.
t: What?
J: Yeah. I saw it on TikTok. People cutting their old Uggs down to ankle length.
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t: Oh. The boots are Blundstones. Weirdly, I bought them in Texas when I came back for a wedding, because I knew it was going to be so cold in New York. Anyway, then either this really big knit cable sweater from Uniqlo or this other big, black, I think they're called chore jackets? And a hat. I like the combination of tiny clothes and big clothes.
J: If you go big on top, you have to go tiny elsewhere? Is that the rule?
t: Yeah. It's like big shirt, small pants or small shirt, big pants. I have these random pants that I think I bought from one of those websites that shall not be named. A long time ago, before I knew they were bad. They’re these big gray bell-bottomy pants. and then I'll wear a very tight T-shirt and tuck it in with the belt. So it's like big, small, small, big.
J: Do you have a preference between big pants, small shirt and big shirt, small pants?
t: I like big pants and small shirt.
J: That's fun.
t: I just want to be comfortable. Honestly, I would love to dress like Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen. They always look impeccable and nice and put together. Always this slouchy gray, black, beige.
J: The outfit you just described is literally out of a Mary-Kate and Ashley paparazzi photo. Lots of gray, lots of black, lots of slouch.
t: Yes. It's more… whatever, nonbinary. Some people don't want to do androgyny. But honestly, I just want to look very chic, but I don't want to be wearing a tight fitted suit. I don't want to wear basically tights when I'm going to see a three-hour play.
J: I like the phrase “whatever, non-binary.” There's that tweet that was like, I don’t owe anybody androgyny but I’m serving it anyway!
t: Yes, I want to serve that more. So when I buy more clothes, whenever I have money, I want to be put together but more slouchy. Here, everyone dresses so nice. Coming from Austin, I feel like my clothes only kind of fit in the summer here, and only if we're going to a divey bar or going to the beach or something. No one's wearing Tevas and tiny shorts and a tank top here.
J: No one wears lil mesh shorts and a tank top…? My favorite outfit…
t: They do, but only in certain parts of Brooklyn! And only at certain places. I don't really care, because it’s all classist and whatever. But it is a different style. People do wear whatever they want—whenever I need to get on the train, you'll see people in basically pajamas or their gym clothes. But with most people around our age, everyone's dressed kind of to the nines. Especially if you're in Williamsburg. Everyone's clothes cost like $500 for each piece.
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J: Let's talk about that classism bit. Obviously I only see the Austin flavor of that in the day to day. How does class and money come into play when you're buying clothes or even just observing the landscape?
t: I feel like a lot of it is the classic thing where the person is wearing a T-shirt and some nice chinos and you're like, oh, that's just a normal regular person's outfit. But then it’s from Supreme or something, or some little boutique store here, and it all actually probably costs twice as much as my entire outfit.
J: The Steal His Look meme. Where it's like some cartoon character's outfit, but they're reconstructing it with $500 T-shirts and $700 jeans.
t: I get free tickets to lots of theatre shows, and it's usually leftovers—usually really close tickets that are super expensive. So the people sitting around you are usually older or rich. Whereas me and my partner are coming business casual from work. We're tired, we have a free ticket, we want to see the show. We have our bags with us, stuff like that. The places you go in a day also creates a class divide, especially if you're going to a party at a venue that you have to pay 20 bucks to get into.
Say we go to the Guggenheim or some other cultural institution that 1) costs too much money to go to and 2) should be free. And then we want to get food after—it’s Central Park West or something, so the cheapest food is like $25 for a sandwich. Or some French restaurant. So I feel like the class divides are just more prevalent. You see it more because you where you live might be different from the area where you work, and all the neighborhoods are so compacted, and you move through them quickly.
J: That makes sense. There's a higher volume of input overall.
t: I knew I didn't make that much money in Austin, but I was like, okay, I have my Tevas and my little clothes. I wasn't buying super new clothes, and I felt like I had a cute little style of dadcore, gorpcore, whatever.
J: What was that second core?
t: Gorpcore. It's supposed to be normal, Patagonia. Very basic. I was just wearing baggy pants and Tevas and Patagonia stuff and shorts and hats. Which I feel like you could definitely make your style here, but ever since I moved here [3 years ago], I was like, whoa, people are really rich. In a way that is so much more shocking. Like when we go to Williamsburg, going to a gay bar or something. It's Friday, I look cutie. And then I'm looking around. And I don't think I look bad or anything like that, or styled wrong, but I'm just like, oh yeah, we’re in Williamsburg. I can tell what neighborhood we’re in by the clothes people wear.
J: Do you ever try to dress in a way that makes you either feel or look like one of the New York Rich?
t: No, I would never.
J: I just wanted to set that straight.
t: It's boring, if you're going to pay that much money. Obviously, I always try to keep my clothes literally until they're falling apart. If I'm going to pay for a gray cable knit sweater that's the same thickness and everything as this $200 one, I'm going to buy the cheaper one. I'm just going to keep it for three years instead of throwing it out or selling or giving it away or whatever.
But if there's something really fancy that I want… there's this Nike Green sweatshirt that I have. It's highlighter green, and I was like, yeah, I'll pay $60 for a sweatshirt. It looks so cool, and it's really thick and warm. So I can wear a T-shirt and a jacket when it's 20 degrees, and I'm warm. But also it just looks kooky. It's just so highlighter green, and my jacket's like forest green.
J: Ooh, I love a clash of green.
t: So then I do that, and then I put a green beanie on, and one time I even accidentally wore green like chinos. I was like, I look like an elf.
Content reuse
J: Was that green sweater your latest splurge?
t: No, I think I haven't bought a lot of clothes in a long time because I'm poor. Plus, I can sew. All my pants rip in the crotch, and they're really expensive to repair. I wear my clothes until they're falling apart. My partner's a bit smaller than me, so if a shirt doesn’t fit me anymore, he wears them, so that's fine. But I haven't bought any clothes recently. It's all reusing stuff and going through and being like, oh, I haven't worn this in a really long time.
J: Shopping your own closet!
t: Change it up, or mix it with this or whatever.
J: What's something that you've rediscovered that maybe you weren't wearing as much in your closet that you've kind brought back in the light?
t: Oh, lemme think. I've been wearing that Beyoncé shirt a lot. I got a tour shirt when I went to the concert, so I've been wearing that a lot because it's super big and thick.
But I’ve been wearing it underneath stuff, because Beyoncé didn't cancel her thing in Israel, and we don't support that. So.
J: Right. Her whole not-divesting thing.
t: At the same time, there are tons of movies you went to go see already this year that already played in Israel.
J: True.
t: Yeah. But I’ve been doing a lot of t-shirts with long sleeve shirts, but leaving them open and rolling the sleeves. Using button-ups that I wouldn't wear normally anymore. I had a job at an office, and at my office job now, they don't really care what you wear. So yeah, a lot of throwing on a thing so that it feels more flowy and blousy. If I'm wearing a band T-shirt that's more tight, I'm like, oh my God, I have to suck my stomach in all night. But I just throw on a chambray shirt over, or some ugly button up I have. Clashing.
J: I like that. I've done similar things with what were formerly Purely Office Shirts. Some fucking highlighter orange souvenir t-shirt underneath.
t: I've been wearing a lot of chinos for work too, because half the time I work from home. Just recently, these last two weeks, I started putting on actual pants for some reason. It feels better to put on pants, especially if I'm sitting here from 8 to 5.
J: Pants instead of no pants, or instead of sweatpants?
t: Instead of sweatpants or shorts or gym shorts.
J: I love working in gym shorts and sweatpants. But yes, you can feel like more of a boss bitch if you wear real pants.
t: It definitely depends on the day.
Genrefluid dressin’
J: Is your work how you get free theatre tickets?
t: No, I did a reading with Breaking the Binary Theater Festival. I worked with them last year, the first year I moved here, and they just send out these links they get. A lot of the people they work with are producers, or there's a trans or queer actor in the play, or a ton of other things.
J: So you see a lot of theater. You write a lot of theater. You're a multi-genre writer. You write poetry, you write short stories. I eat all that shit up. Would you say that your dressing sense and your closet is also a multi-genre affair?
t: Oh, definitely. Sometimes I'll dress really butch. I have these black cargo pants, kind of the ‘90s pants coming back in style, with the little thing to put your key on, and little pockets everywhere. Or sometimes I'm like, I'm going to wear this woman's wool short-sleeve shirt that’s kind of a crop top on me and wide pants and boots.
So I feel like it definitely is a multi-genre closet. If I want to be comfortable, if we're going in the movie theater, or if we're going out or if we're going to gay bar versus we're going to hang out with some film bros. Tonight, I'm going to the theater by myself. I'm just going to watch a long play. I'll be comfortable. But tomorrow if I go out, I'm going to do my makeup and maybe try to put on a top that looks cute. Or even iron my clothes! It just depends on the mood. I could be more androgynous or more nonbinary dressing. But also I probably wouldn't dress like that all the time. Or seeing people dressed as nines or just very put together and meticulously dressed, especially in Brooklyn and New York all around. I'm not going to do that every day.
J: Yeah, that makes sense. I like that kind of fluidity.
On how Dickies is cool now
J: We both have filmic boyfriends. Do you ever buy clothes for your filmic boyfriend?
t: I don’t! I think he asks my opinion sometimes when he buys stuff. But he doesn't buy a lot of his stuff. His mom buys him clothes.
J: That's cute. How are y'all's styles different? You share clothes as a mostly same-size couple. But do you feel like you have a good handle on what's your shit versus something that's more his style?
t: Yeah. He likes more… he's from Chicago, he's a white boy. And filmic. So he dresses pretty put together, but it’s just a button up. He loves a good Norvis, thick flannel. They're super warm and they're really pretty. But they're supposed to be worn for like, chopping wood in the snow.
J: Labor.
t: Yeah, it’s kind of like the Carhartt fascination and the Dickies fascination—these are all work clothes that now you've trended into something where now the work people can't afford them, and the people that want to get the stuff now can't even afford them! Every time I go try to buy a Carhartt beanie, it's sold out. The amount of Carhartt beanies I see in Brooklyn, it should be illegal. There should be a limit. There should be a cap.
J: A cap!
t: Literal cap!!
J: I hate it! Anyway, yes. That's a really good point though about just the… appropriation, for lack of a better term. I know people throw that around a lot, but the appropriation of literal work clothes to make it not accessible to working-class people.
t: My God, I talk about that all the time. It drives me crazy. In Texas, I had to wear a uniform in middle school, and Dickies was GROSS. You did not wear Dickies. But now it's the fashion. Carhartt, Dickies, Wrangler, Levi’s. Stuff that back then was kind of corny. Now everyone's running to get these Dickies pants.
J: What do you think causes clothes in particular to get trended into oblivion like that? I know some of it is obviously corporations, but some of it is also TikTok, and there's so many other factors. That's something that's always hard for me to untangle when I think about it too hard.
t: I think people are just looking for cheap, affordable, sustainable materials and clothing. People just want to look different, and you want to be comfortable. You don't want to go to Shein. So someone's like, ooh, I've tried these pants on, and they look like really cool hip seventies bell bottoms, but they're Dickies and they're $30 and they last a really long time, and they fit amazing.
People also want to be individuals so bad that they create an aesthetic every week. But in actuality, the way it works is usually the naming of the aesthetic historically happens after the fact. Like, they didn't call it “mod” in 1960s England. That label came largely after it happened, and then people moved on to a new thing. It happens after, and now people are trying to create their own, trying to be sustainable but also look like an individual.
J: The whole sustainability bit, when it's coupled with the rapid aestheticization of everything, can be counterproductive. You see people talking about some new sustainable brand every week. And it's like, if you're buying all of these things… iiiiiiis that sustainable? It's just interesting how closely our perception of sustainability is coupled with consumption. Like, buy this to be sustainable! But it doesn't work like that.
Is thrifting flop?
J: I want to ask about thrifting because that's also an area that’s been made less accessible over the years. Do you like thrifting clothes? Do you find yourself having luck thrifting and actually finding good stuff that way, or is it more complicated?
t: I don't really love thrifting. Obviously, in our age of technology, I spend time thinking about what I want anyway. I want this one specific item. I have no problem with thrifting, I’d just rather buy a quality thing, but wait until I've saved enough money, wait until it's really pertinent. I have one Telfar bag, and then I have that for a while, and then I bought a Telfar wallet, and I'm like, okay, these are my little prized possessions.
So if it's something like that, I just try to wait until I can. I buy everything on sale. When Urban's having 70% off, I'm like, okay, what’s the one ugly thing I want from here?
J: [lol]
t: I just find thrifting it really hard. There should be more accessible thrift stores everywhere. Honestly, a lot of the times I find stuff on stoops. Some nice shirts or pretty scarves somebody left. So I don't thrift that much. I want to do it for moral reasons, and it does seem fun when someone's like, yeah, I found this Louis Vuitton dress for $5.
J: It is fun when you do find something, but yeah, it's inefficient. It's usually not searchable, unless you're paying the Etsy or Depop markup or whatever. I did have a thrifting fucking miracle last time I went. I was looking for some straight leg jeans that I could sit cross-legged in basically. And they were the first ones I tried on, and they were perfect, and they were $7, and I was gooped. [UPDATE: They actually suck.]
t: That did happen to me in Austin one time, but I think it was because I went to Goodwill or something, or Texas Thrift off the highway.
J: Oh, that's nice.
t: I never find anything at Buffalo.
J: I cannot with Buffalo. I have never been their target audience. I have accepted it.
t: I am not paying $20 for this shirt that says NASA and it looks old and vintage.
J: Like, baby… that's Kohl's in 2007.
Thigh tat summer
J: I love the cover of your new book, and it's very different from the cover of Maiden. Do you ever dress like the cover of your new book, Untenable Mystic Charm? It sounds like you dress like Maiden, lots of dark, lots of flowy, but do you ever dress like this new one?
t: Oh, no, I don't know! But maybe this summer. I want a thigh tattoo and different colored little shorts so you can see it peeking out. I feel like that cover is very, someone said vaporwave, very vibey. And I feel like this winter is so cold that once it goes away to the next season… suddenly everyone wants to hang out every single weekend, lots of outdoor things to do. So maybe I'll get that vibe and buy some new clothes that fit that brighter fun.
J: That'd be cool. What do you want for your thigh tattoo?
t: I don't know.
J: That's the best circumstance under which to get a tattoo.
t: I love looking at an artist’s flash.
J: Same.
t: Only a few tattoos I have I asked them to design. So hopefully I’ll just find someone I like on Instagram and get some of their flash. I just want a big thigh tattoo. I feel like that would be a good, cute summer thing.
J: That's true.
t: Peeking out of your shorts! Ooh!
J: As long as you don't swim while it’s healing!
t: Yeah. Well, that's why I want to get it in spring so that during the summer it's like, ooh, cutie~
The Rich and Famous
J: What have your favorite red carpet looks so far of this season have been?
t: Oh, okay. I've been really liking Coleman Domingo’s.
J: Love his suits.
t: Obviously. Yeah, there was one that was different colors of orange and yellow, and it was a little bigger and flowy, less fitted, but the way he styled it made it not look like a hippie going to the grocery store. It made it look really fashion, and with these gold little pendants he's been wearing. He's just making it a little different, but he's not wearing like… a tank top.
J: Tank top. Pearl Necklace. High pants. The Formula.
t: Yeah like, Oh, I'm queer. Look at me. I'm a superstar. It’s less MTV, more Oscary, but he's changing it up. So I feel like that looks good. And I really liked when Barry [Keoghan] wore that white suit where he was with the two tall boys, and people were saying he looked like a little lesbian.
J: He really did look like a little lesbian.
t: But his outfits have been really good! Like the red outfit for the other awards, he looks good. He does look like a little butch lesbian from Austin, and that's okay.
J: That's okay.
t: I like that he's still wearing a suit—I mean, whatever gender, bleh. He's still wearing a suit, but it looks cool, and it doesn't look outrageous, if that makes sense.
J: Yeah. It's not a stunt.
t: Just outrageous enough that it's pretty. It still has to be put together and pretty. And that white suit in the red suit he was wearing, there were cute details. He had his arms out. His arms look good. Wait, what about you?
J: I have ones that I did not like, but I really loved Da’Vine Joy Randolph’s Golden Globes dress. That was my top one so far. [Update: Her Oscars dress is now my #1.]
t: She looked amazing. Gigantic tits. Sorry. No misogyny!
J: It’s not misogynistic to love gigantic tits.
t: Oh my God. She looked so gorgeous. It looked so good on her.
J: It was art. So what’s on your When I'm Rich List?
t: Obviously The Row [Mary-Kate and Ashley’s brand]. Everything from The Row.
J: Buy it out.
t: More Telfar bags. I want a Luar bag. They're very structured, and by a Latinx designer from New York. who, so I definitely want one of those bags. And then a Loewe bag. The artistic director is a gay Irish man. And honestly, I feel like Tom Brown's played out, but I would love a good suit skirt.
J: I loooove those.
t: With like a long skirt.
J: So when you inevitably get nominated for and win a Tony, what would you like to wear on the red carpet?
t: Oh, I think I would definitely go very sleek. I feel like a very satiny, silky outfit. I definitely feel like I would do an androgynous thing of play. I just love a long pleated skirt with a little pant tuck under and maybe some blacks and grays. And then I really love mustard orange, so maybe some kind of accents of mustard orange. And then lots of jewelry. Maybe not so much on the neck, maybe just rings. And then maybe a thin necklace that kind of comes down that accents the orange.
J: This seems like possibly something that we've planned already, and by we, I mean you, and that sounds divine.
SPORTS HATS
J: Speaking of doing interesting things with masculinity for once in people's fucking lives, I loved your play Queen of the Night, loved watching via Zoom. That was one of the highlights of my quarantine. It dealt a lot with concepts of masculinity, especially when you're growing up, and father-son relationships and all that. Is there a way that you felt like you needed to dress when you were younger? How did you navigate that to find your own kind of bullshit?
t: I definitely felt like I had to be very sporty, and back then clothes were super baggy. And I was super scrawny and wearing XL, XXL shirts. Very coded masculine, especially black masculinity. It was very like, hip hop dressing, like rappers and basketball people. Lots of baggy, big, big, big clothes that just didn't fit my body. I was 85 pounds. I was so skinny for most of my life, so that definitely influenced the way I dressed.
And obviously coming out and feeling more comfortable with myself changed that. And now, getting older and gaining weight and stuff, I'm like, oh, I like baggy, but it has to fit this certain way. So I guess baggy is still in my vocabulary of clothing, but now if I wear a jersey, it'll be funny and cute. I'll wear it with pants and no shirt under if we're going to gay bars.
J: Tongue in cheek a little bit.
t: Yeah, it wouldn't be because I really care about sports or something. I wear a lot of sports hats. I wear a lot of baseball hats, so some of them are Yankees or Chicago Bears or whatever, and people are always like, Go Bears! And I'm like, ah, yeah, cool, haha.. yeah…. Randomly people in the airports would just be like ‘HOOK EM!!!! And I'm like, huh? Oh, yeah, hook ‘em!
J: Damn. I mean, you did wear the hat.
t: I know. And then now I'm like, okay, I have to start knowing what the teams are and if they won or not. People will straight up start asking me questions! I'm like, I'm literally wearing a glitter shirt with the New York Yankees hat, do you think I know? I just bought the hat, guys.
I Am Ready to Have Important Conversations in My Outfit
J: So a lot of this whole series started with that Lisa Frank meme: yes, the grief is never ending, but you've still got to serve. I think about it all the time, but especially kind of in a new light with the genocides, plural, happening now. Does what's going on in the world affect your amount of energy or your perspective or anything like that when it comes to how you dress?
t: For me, I’m mainly trying to be more sustainable in what I buy, and just saving for and buying specific items that I want, and trying to make sure the company at least is not supporting something I’m against. With the news that I ingest, podcasts, all that stuff, it does feel like that meme, in a way that I don't know if it's good or bad. Sometimes, if I'm having a horrible day. I’ll just put on mascara and blush and highlighter and eyebrow and go somewhere.
And when you're feeling more confident in your body, which comes off obviously by the things you wear on your body, you're more confident in your moral stance, you're ready to have conversations. You’re ready to talk to people.
J: I've never thought of it from that perspective.
t: There’s definitely a connection there. I paint my nails, put on makeup, and get ready. And the world–everything's still happening, but it just makes me feel more confident to talk. If somebody tries to come for me or says something horrible about Palestinians or blah blah blah, I'm ready to speak about my morals or have a conversation with somebody random that's sitting next to me.
J: That makes a lot of sense. It makes you kind of more present and rooted in your context.
t: Yeah, if you feel good and comfortable with the clothes you're wearing. That's why I feel like it's such an important thing. Also, I’ve been saving lots of links to queer designers and different things, so when I have money, I can go through and buy them, because I know that this shirt will make me feel really good. It’s corny, dressing can be like your armor or whatever, but not because you need to defend—just because it makes you more of a whole person. Which sometimes means my workout gear and my tights and little shorts and a workout shirt and gym shoes. But sometimes that means a weird shirt and another weird shirt on top!
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this is so slay!!!